We had the following verse in Sunday School today and I didn’t understand it at all. Please help:
And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
Does this mean the Catholics were right to sell indulgences? (Of course, they weren’t right on the selling part, but as Luther said and as Protestant theory goes, “Men don’t have the power to forgive sins.” Is this really true?) Does this mean that we have to power (through Jesus, of course) to forgive sins? Or is there context elsewhere that throws this passage into a different light?
Here’s two additional passage that would seem to support this further:
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. [This is Jesus talking.]
I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. [This is Jesus talking, again.]
Discuss, discuss… (I’m stepping out in faith in my readers by putting this in the “Great Discussions” category. Don’t disappoint me!)
12 Responses
September 5th, 2005 at 12:01 am
while i don’t claim to understand the exact outworkings of said verses i think probably we do have more spiritual power than we exercise…with the forgiveness i would assume this is a reference to the corporate body of believers and their acceptance of lack there of, of a wayward brother…the binding on earth and heaven…in my opinion it is a direct reference to spiritual powers and using the name of Jesus in spiritual warfare…(emphasis spiritual warfare not with guns or bombs but prayer and fasting…)
i like the variety hans…
joshuabgood
September 5th, 2005 at 10:39 am
Hans, I am doing some research on this, and so far, according to Adam Clark and those he quotes, it appears that Jesus was using Jewish concepts to express to the Apostles His blessing and committing of the leadership of the church.
Concerning the breathing on the disciples, Adam Clark comments that this is parallel to the breathing into Adam the breath of life at creation by God. Here is a symbolic giving of spiritual life to these men who would begin the leadership of the church.
Concerning the remitting and retaining of sins Clark says this:
“It is certain God alone can forgive sins; and it would not only be blasphemous, but grossly absurd, to say that any creature could remit the guilt of a transgression which had been committed against the Creator. The apostles received from the Lord the doctrine of reconciliation, and the doctrine of condemnation. They who believed on the Son of God, in consequence of their preaching, had their sins remitted; and they who would not believe were declared to lie under condemnation.”
“Dr. Lightfoot supposes that the power of life and death, and the power of delivering over to Satan, which was granted to the apostles, is here referred to. This was a power which the primitive apostles exclusively possessed.”
Concerning the keys to the kingdom, Clark quotes this:
“When the Jews made a man a doctor of the law, they put into his hand the key of the closet in the temple where the sacred books were kept, and also tablets to write upon; signifying, by this, that they gave him authority to teach, and to explain the Scriptures to the people.-Martin.”
Again a Jewish concept is offered to help these men understand Jesus’ commission.
Concerning the binding and loosing, Clark offers this:
“Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth] This mode of expression was frequent among the Jews: they considered that every thing that was done upon earth, according to the order of God, was at the same time done in heaven: hence they were accustomed to say, that when the priest, on the day of atonement, offered the two goats upon earth, the same were offered in heaven. As one goat therefore is permitted to escape on earth, one is permitted to escape in heaven; and when the priests cast the lots on earth, the priest also casts the lots in heaven. See Sohar. Lev. fol. 26; and see Lightfoot and Schoettgen.”
Overall I think that we are to understand that Jesus was committing the leadership to these disciples/apostles in the initial organization of the Church of Jesus Christ, and that some of this same power is passed on to those that these men laid hands on in establishing new churches with their continuation in faithfulness to God’s Word being an establishing requirement. This is an authority that is to be exercised by our ordained brethren today as they shepard the flock of God.
Hope this can help get the discussion started.
September 5th, 2005 at 10:41 am
Duh! Sorry about all the bold letters, apparently I did not do it right!
September 5th, 2005 at 2:38 pm
Truthseeker: At one place you had two opening “<b>” but only one closing “</b>”. I fixed it for you.
September 5th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
Truth Seeker; That is a very interesting way of looking at the “Keys” and “Binding and Loosing”. I was curious as to where you found your information about Jewish traditions?
I have a lot of catholic relatives and they really like to use this verse.
September 5th, 2005 at 8:58 pm
Thanks Hans, I try to proof the comment but sometimes I do not catch the obvious.
Jake, I use a Bible program from Power BibleCD by Online Publishing, Inc.
127 N. Matteson Street PO Box 21, Bronson, MI 49028
bible@mail.com
The program has Adam Clark as one of the commentaries for the Bible and I have an abridged copy of his commentary in hardback that I have used for years too. The Jewish understandings came from his writings and his quotes from his contempories. The CD is $19.95 plus shipping unless you can find a special.
September 6th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Binding and loosing does not apply solely to the twelve apostles. God gives authority to whomever He wishes.
If you see a horrible injustice and ask God to hold the wrongdoer accountable and to show him or her no mercy, God may listen to you and honor your request. (See Luke 18:1-8.) In listening to you, God is alowing to bind.
This is only part of what it means to have the authority to loose and bind.
September 6th, 2005 at 6:41 pm
J.A., I will not say that your use of Lu. 18:1-8 as part of binding and loosing is right or wrong, but I see it more as a believer using persistent prayer in seeking help from God. I see this passage as a lesson from Christ to teach us that we must storm the gates in prayer at times and that God will reward our persistence. Maybe that is a form of binding and loosing, but I never saw it that way. Will think about this some more. Thanks.
September 6th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
Truthseeker, thanks for the research, but I’m not sure that I would agree with Mr. Clark’s analysis. It pretty clearly says “forgive sins” and unless there were some very concrete Jewish custom that “forgive sins” doesn’t really mean “forgive sins” then I would have some problem with that interpetation. I believe in taking the Bible at face value unless it obvious that it is speaking in a parable or is speaking metaphorically.
If you have any further info, that would be great!
September 10th, 2005 at 11:20 pm
Hans, I think that what Adam Clark and his contempories were expressing is that the Apostles would have this power of forgiving sins or remitting sins of individuals as they began the organization of the church of Jesus Christ. It appears to be an authority just for the chosen Apostles, in their day, for this new era of the Church.
And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
John 20: 22-23
This is Jesus speaking to and breathing on His disciples, soon to be Apostles, in particular; thus, a giving of special authority. I think that this was also manifested in the case of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11.
The loosing and binding in the Jewish customs is a type of this authority. Jesus was giving them authority and phrasing it in concepts that they could understand.
I am not saying that all of this IS how it should be understood, but I have no other reference in the New Testament that can directly shed any further light on this beyond the experience of Acts 5. It is apparent that these men, especially Peter, John, and later, Paul were chosen for special work and given special authority. This is all that I have gleaned from my research thus far.
Beyond the lives of these men I would have to say that no man can forgive sins in the same individual manner; this is God’s authority alone, which He accomplishes within the structure of the church of His Son, since these Apostles have passed into eternity.
Again, I am not saying that Adam Clark is right or that I am right, these are thoughts that I have had on the subject and verses you gave to discuss. I await others.
September 10th, 2005 at 11:30 pm
Sure. I wasn’t blaming you at all.
But following your line of reasoning, doesn’t that mean that all of the things that Jesus said to the disciples don’t apply to us? Should we not practice communion? There are many other examples of things that he told his disciples that we feel that we should follow. How do we determine what is meant for just his disciples and what is meant for us? Our preconceived notions? The way we’ve always done it/thought?
Again, I’m not attacking you at all. I know that you are bringing someone else’s ideas to the table. I just don’t understand it…
September 15th, 2005 at 7:23 pm
Hans, as far as us today doing all of the things Jesus said that the disciples/apostles would do I think that we could think of a few if we tried. I am not saying that all of the things that were said that the apostles would do are impossible for us today, but there obviously somethings that they did that we were not necessarially meant to do.
In this area of loosing and binding, I think that we still do it in the context of the church, as a body and not as individuals like Peter, Paul, John and the other disciples in the first years of the church during their lifetimes. These men were told that they would do greater things, works as individuals for the new body of the church, than Christ did before His crucifixion because Jesus would not physically be here to do these things, but sent the Holy Spirit to empower them, and also us, to carry on this glorious work. We just do not do things ex cathedra as they did. The New Testament was their work as they wrote, lead by the Holy Spirit; we haven’t added to it since. We work from their work, the Word that God gave through them, and we have the plan and guide we need, this was their work and like Christ’s on the cross, it is finished.
I see a vast difference in then and today spiritually and maybe I am wrong, but there is a difference, to me, in how the church has changed since these dedicated men died. Just like when Moses died and those after him died. It is no wonder to me that Jesus wondered if He would find faith on the earth when He returns. Each generation has made some improvements, but have lost ground repeatedly throughout history. I weep that I/we are not like those men He chose and left behind. I try to remember that logic, for us, is too human to truly know it all or figure it all out. Sorry if you do not agree, but then you do not have to. {:^)
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